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Ronald O. Perelman – Capo Di Capi – Deposition by Jeff Krinsk Oct. 17, 2002

To: NextraTerrestrial listeners and doers of good.


It is my hope that the following deposition recently taken by a competent anD experienced attorney will help folks get an idea of the nature of the process that takes place at a deposition in the course of discovery, that the devil is not in the detail but rather it takes detailed individuals to fashion the correct statements, to mention little of what little it takes to pull together someone who is already the queen-bee while would-be kings trumpet about in disguise disposing of a pet or tTOo along the way, birds to boot.


And of course it is common knowledge the emperor has no clothes, furriers a thing of the past, to avoid though at all cost making the same mistake twice.


We all pay when others get tTOo pumped up trickling all the way down to the point where we all pay at the pump. There is a joke I once heard about these two extraterrestrials who arrived on earth for the very first time and where rather hungry and as they approached a gas station, the one said to his mate,


“Hey, look at that dude filling up everyone standing in line but we don’t have the right currency. I guess I will just pop him one square between the eyes with my shoulder pistol.”


The second alien became quite alarmed as his buddy started taking aim,


“Hey man, don’t mess with that dude. He is simply doing his business.”


The first alien pays no attention to the pleas of his buddy and pulls the trigger. The gas station explodes and the two aliens end up in Timbuktu. As they gather themselves off the ground the first alien says to the second,


“Christ almighty how was I to know the guy was ready to blow a fuse?”


His buddy turns to him and says,


“I told you not to mess with the dude. Anyone who can take their shalong, wrap it around their shoulder and then stick it in their ear after giving it to a third party in the rear is not someone you want to mess with.”


The moral of this story can come in several forms. First and foremost, when I mean business I mean business. Second, when someone messes with my business they are messing with the lifeblood of me. Third, the level of testosterone has clearly been on the increase in our society ever since folks like Pythagoras concluded that man, not God, can take care of himself as long as he abides by nature’s laws.


The Pythagoras Theorem was much more than simply putting an equation to a form understood by folks who came thousands of years before him. “This plus this equals that” should have been enough for everyone to realize that we have the power within each one of us to square things neatly away, that the more we divide just like a right angled triangle, the more we remain alike, much the same, until such time as there is only one. Hence, the expression, “Number is the essence of all things, good or evil.” The choice if doing good or bad is ours for the taking.


The genius of Pythagoras was not putting into practice the benefits of a right angle triangle that forms the basis of all mathematics but rather for the first time in history mysticism and superstition had been taken out of the equation in the quest to understand the meaning of life without eliminating spirituality from his midst, believing it was vitally important to keep women on the forefront of science and physics, paying very careful attention to form as well as substance.


The rule of law when practiced by the best is something to behold. Unfortunately not everyone can be as masterful as Mr. “Circle” K but more troubling is how easy it is for folks to lie and think they can get away with it simply because folks have essentially been lying, cheating and stealing for some 2,500 years and getting away with it.


Genius is something each one of us is born with and only when folks start interfering with the  sequencing do things begin to unravel. Wacko begins when kids are allowed to get away with “murder” thinking that they are more special than those who give them the right care which doenst always come from their biological parents. Once we start using words like “I love you” which have little meaning since it means something different to each and every one of us to the point that it eventually lands on deaf ears although I am all in favor of the world gobbledygook even though I sometimes have trouble with its spelling. Thank God though for allowing us to make it through to the Digital Age.


The breakthroughs in technology that led to the transistor that resulted in the chips that power our computers are not that far from the chip off the old block, to boot, that allows us to type away with spell check getting better with each passing minute, amount to nothing more than the discoveries by the Babylonians of the 60 minute clock and the number system which makes perfect harmony to those of us not having forgotten our past, tapped in to the calls of nature, now knocking on the doors of both friend and foe, having no fear.


When nature calls each one of us pretty much knows what to do and so we come down to what I believe is at the grass roots of all that sets us apart from one another while we go at each others throats like there is no tomorrow. It can all be found in the Zquestion which is very much a WIP as in Work in Progress which will require input from each one of us who remains on this earth as we continue to take pot shots at one another for reasons that should no longer be that difficult to explain to our children.


Those of us “blessed” with helping raise other peoples’ children know only too well what it means to have a pointed gun constantly pointed at one’s throat not knowing one day to the next wether a rapacious individual who simply mothered or fathered a child will be able to pull out their “shalong” and blow us to kingdom come just because “I say so” [sic].


Kids are sick to death of the threats, the blows, the destructive nature of parents who themselves were poorly parented to begin with and now pass on along with their genes the nonsense that has been blowing in the air in large measure the result of the industrial revolution which simply put Europe on the map.


The indigenous peoples of Africa and the Americas were doing just fine but nevertheless welcomed the me on horse back with open arms believing they were in fact Gods armed to boot as they stole their purses and then some, time for Yale University to return what rightfully belongs at the top of Machu Picchu.


In turning back the clock just a tick in what is nothing more than one moment in time, we can see how time has in fact stood still as we have gone about blowing each other to smithereens. Getting back to Time Moment One is nothing more than an ego trip for a bunch of TOES who want their place in the history books along with their Wall Street brothers who have been firing up storms while the rest of the world has looked on in amusement especially when one considers those bowler hats, ducking though for cover as James Bond 007 does his thing on behalf King and country to mention little of the force de jour that emanate from queens with testosterone bulging through their varicose veins who sit on the throne encompassing the most hedonistic form of an ugly monarch with no one willing to stand behind her, keeping her in check, fearful of the winds of war.


There is though nothing funny about being called at night especially if you are a widow, orphan or pensioner from a guy coming out of a boiler room stealing your last nickel which has been ploughed from the ground by folks doing most of the tilling as the Wall Streeters went “ching ching” making due with more than a hairdo as the farmers of the third world took most of the haircut with Federal bailout programs going back to the same Wall Streeters who had bought up the debt they had first sold to those who really weren’t in need of anything but to be simply left alone; quite a masquerade, a put on show that now has their eyeliner being used for headlines describing a show some thought would never end. The downfall of Ronald “The Finagle King” Perelman is the beginning of the end for all those who lie, steal and cheat.


One needs both form and substance to keep the lines both parallel and perpendicular otherwise everything collapses. There is absolutely nothing known to man that can keep the stock markets continuing to tick away and they will implode without any assistance from any terrorist group not even the French Ministry of Health and Terror, performance measured by the drop of the water tables throughout the land, Vivendi, Universal Studios to boot TimpucktTOo.


This is something I not only know for certain, not that I am master of the universe but simply master of my own destiny and I do understand the business of risk rather well.


We don’t need another war for things to go sky high. All we need is just one dam burst. Once one recognizes that time has in fact stood still pretty much for some 2,500 odd years one has to believe that if there is a will there must be a way out of this mess and it won’t be pretty. Removing plastered on makeup that has been baking in the sun for eons is not for the feint hearted.


There are, though, more than a handful of folks who understand these elements rather well and who are ready to step forward at a moments notice and get us back to the basics, trust and respect and worrying about love who is in love is less important when you have hungry mouths to feed.


It will take for many, however, some getting used to, that not only are each one of us captain of our own ships but we have to fight like mad our right to stay afloat until God deems otherwise. It has to be more than simply “I may not agree with a word you say but will fight to the death your right to it” when if everyone where to follow such a path it would mean half the population would be wiped out and then some.


It is, however, very much a matter of the meek with teeth inheriting the earth just like Pythagoras understood the elements of what it meant to be at one without having to bother himself to death with understanding the behavior of artificial light that requires more than simply understanding integers which are both real and imaginary. Certainly he had the imagination of the impossible, including if necessary being able to calculate the square root of a negative number which even today we have difficulty putting down on paper let alone what happens to a 12C Texas Instrument calculator, but he and his followers were enlightened to begin with and didn’t need to burn the candle at both ends.


My Sharp calculator from high school fortunately does not have the square root function otherwise I would spend a lot more time seeing if it has accumulated any more intelligence over the years. Its “Manual and Automatic” switch still functions which has me at times making more of the numbers moving back and forth than what some would regard as productive use of my time.


Dying the richest person in the world was never part of my learning only that I should be preoccupied that at the launch of my rocket to the universes beyond the eye of the sun I would have my reputation in tact and my ego in check or I would end up in TimpucktTOo. Knowing a thing or tTOo about the game of ice-hockey has allowed me to skate around others without them knowing whether I was coming or going and of course at times I would confuse myself.


Quantum Mechanics is what has saved us all up to now, the importance of simultaneous equations cannot be overstated as it prepares one to do move in directions that defy the human muscular skeletal system, to mention little of being able to move forward in reverse and why math even if it is only the basics is so very important but nothing though is as important as telling kids the truth for it is the white lies that stack up until they become just plain vanilla lies and then pretty much anything is acceptable even believing that black and white are colors, colorblind all part of bottoms up schooling which teaches first and foremost what is the right and wrong way to do our business which brings us to where we are now.


In my opinion we have nothing left to lose but time and of course the ones we love most.


One of my very close colleagues believes my end will come with a quick blow to the back of the head, “no pain though.” What is to be gained, however, by getting rid of me given the fact that I am certain that the remaining 7.5 billion on this earth will follow shortly, thus his predictions not only cause me to lose little sleep but I have never slept sounder but the 3rd World War has already begun and it began on Wall Street not on 9-11 but when we left it to politicians to decide what was right as they took their orders not from above but from the folks who were lining their pockets.


With that said, it takes more than a warrior to shoot other peoples’ arrows although one cannot think of everyone who has worked for “The Finagle King” as a complete idiot. It is the power behind the throne, the one that rocks the cradle that needs watching ever so carefully, sins of the father as well as the mother, never though to smother kids with blankets for when the kid comes of age they will assume that it is only fitting and proper that everything gets swept under the rug, so much for Mr. Perelman’s rug although he probably does use Revlon Outrageous Shampoo when combing his short hairs.


It takes also someone with more than a nose to know not only what right questions to ask when sniffing for rot but to maintain the sequencing, something we should all be aware of when raising a child who is programmed right from the start to trust his-her better instincts, i.e. Manager Minute One, that we should all be our own managers right from the time we can fashion a statement never being afraid to make mistakes, knowing what it takes to stand tall.


It is the tallest trees that attract the most wind but it takes forces of nature to rip us apart, tearing our clothes to shreds, if need be, to mention just in passing what exactly constitutes a good looking fashion plate, never to be deceived by someone good looking who is hell bent on eating everyone alive even a skinny journalist like Christopher Byron.


In a nutshell Furthermore, one can ascertain how carefully corporate surrogates are prepared to create the appearance of cooperation when the clear motivation is obfuscation to mention little of how it comes about that good people get co-opted in to enlarging the webs of deceit while being satisfied to eat crumbs.


I believe a full airing of this deposition will help people understand the process and the skills that create a favorable outcome and thus will be more inclined to participate in Shareholder Class Action Litigation where substantial skills are needed for a positive outcome to mention little of timing and good “Jew diligence” [sic].


Naturally, I prefer we resolve our conflicts without going the lawsuit route, which is one of the pursuits of but one has to be realistic that it is going to take some doing to bring other rapacious folks like Ronald “The Finagle King” Perelman tumbling to the ground especially when one has so-called “on-the-ball” journalists getting bushwhacked by “pretty good-looking” women.


For some reason Martha Stewart being a director since 1996 of Revlon got lost on Christopher Byron in his 8-16-99 NY Observer article as he prepared to dine on her, prospectus to boot, going slow at first, although there is no mention of him spreading her legs as he later had her going from one side to the other, through the twists and turns uncovering all her wrinkles and soiled past.


One can only wonder what sort of motorcycle Byron has locked up in his garage no doubt mostly collecting moths to mention little of him now having to come out of the closet to explain his memory lapses perhaps soon volunteering for a TV show geared for those who play it fast and loose although we at NT prefer a face lift or tTOo of a different sort. I never got, however, beyond page 3 of Martha Inc’s prologue as I was getting ever so close to throwing up and messing up my latest cartoon character[1].


Interestingly, Mr. Byron did seem to remember Martha on 11-08-99 and then again on 4-23-01 as being associated with Ronald “O. Ring” Perelman who seems to have bought off just about everyone and certainly it cannot be his short-s, or his baldness that has the best of the legal eagles now breathing down his neck with me alongside whispering song and poetry every step of the way.


Given, however, that the house of cards is perched ready to tumble we had all better get prepared for another rumble in the jungle or at least give support to folks like me and the rest of my team who have been training a lifetime for this opportunity of showing that overwhelming forces of light can overcome evil.


In order to keep the conversation lively I have added my own “sic” notes in pink along of course with a hyperlink or tTOo. So far I have managed to get through 64 pages of a deposition that lasted some 9 odd hours and produced an output of some 380 pages. I think though for all intent and purposes the $64,000 question has been asked and answered.


Once the remaining 316 pages have been examined in more depth we will soon be running a quiz with prizes galore on the NextraTerrestrial array of websites asking folks to submit an essay that best captures what is to be gleamed from this deposition that will have some folks no doubt depressed.


Some of us older fogies are now only just getting up tTOo speed as we start twisting and turning those who would have us all continuing to go around in circles, getting their attention, having them cough up a buck or tTOo and doing what’s write or they will have hell to pay for, i.e. time to pay the piper.


Time is of the essence to bring to an end all “Capo di capi”s and naturally we should all go easy on the cappuccinos especially when it now exceeds $3 for tTOo shots.


The devil is not in the detail but rather within each none of us from when we begin to play it fast and loose to when we die and God downloads all the kuk and gobbledygook and then decides what next to do with us. Most would agree the ants are taking over.


Remember to tune in at least 5 times a day to the NextraTerrestrial array of websites as we unleash our Perfect Storms to end all wars in our effort to bring peace and balance to the planet.


Take care,


Gary S. Gevisser


Post script – The time is now for those who are reckless with the truth to fess up to their sins and make amends so that we can all get with the program, The choices are rather simple. If we continue gauging ourselves at the current rate we will eventually become fodder for pigs, “phat and short and very sick” [sic] is what Mr. V should have said about Ronald “The Finagle King” Perelman, and a whole lot more. At some point he will have to account to a higher authority, assuming he believes in anyone higher than the “capo di capi” in his decision not to retain legal counsel who have no interest in being principled.


It is time to remove all the silly little hats we wear as if God doesn’t know the difference between rain and shine to mention little of how we had better start educating our kids right with the correct vocabulary to mention little of a value system immediately they exit the womb or we will all end up eating potatoes, in a best case scenario.


If anyone else comes up with a better way than Guidance tTOo to help measure our words I am all ears but I have a brain as well despite what others all holed-out, brainnes to boot, deem otherweiss, who often simply rock along taking up space to mention little of what good green fairways and lawns do to our oceans as the insecticides and dead pets get washed out to C.


Should we not get our acts together very soon to mention little of our laws that mostly protect the rich and powerful, corrupted in their pursuit of so-called “holy wars” while co-opting good men who upon getting it in the rear shoot forth a mouthful to the women who are left ducking and diving for cover, now in modern times believing that increased testosterone is the only way to save par.


The best of the previous generation are cracking up, those on the left, right and the few who remain centered. There is nothing to laugh about the folks who stood tall like my father whose friends fell from the sky like flies in pursuit of just one evil in mankind’s rather brief time here on earth.


History is repeating itself at blitzkrieg speed with TV adding in no small measure to the shell shock therapy that keeps the drug companies on the war path. There is though enough time left for the rest of the Allies to thank the Americans like Dwight Kroesch who delivered the wright message to Hitler along with others like Amos Wright who probably also doesn’t own more than one umbrella to never ever forgetting the treatment black servicemen received when offering to give up their lives to defend places like Australia whose origins are based in part on deposited convicted felons but who like their white winging counterparts, the South Africans, play rugby and cricket not though as smartly as us English who came from the South African province of Natal, the last depository of English commeruppers who had no other place to hide but every so often try and outrun the comrades marathon runners while thinking about math and how nothing seemed to ever add up.


This is not the time for the Europeans to rest easy especially since they have yet to rid themselves of their fukukta Kings, Queens and terrorist sponsoring agencies.


A new light is dawning for women all around the world who are fed up with the nonsense of an elite ruling class who send their youngsters to war. There are though more than a cupful of able bodied men ready to serve and right now some of us are serving up a storm that will give many heads of illegitimate states including so-called “heads of households” within each of our communities a rise and then some.


Folks, soon it will be time to rise and shine as we launch the next series of Perfect Storms in our efforts to prevent the dogs from inheriting everything together of course with the cats as God turns things around once again attaching tails to those of us with overweight torsos prodding along hi-ways which are as messed as our arteries to mention little of the state of our water canals, but there of course lots of things to “love” about our most beautiful world that is simply needing a bit of TLC.


The word “love”, however, is used a little too often for my liking. How in heavens name can we “love” anyone if we don’t have respect and trust and it does take courage to tell the young ones the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth.


Relying on folks like the George Soros’[2] of the world to balance the books who first saturate the minds with poisoned starched pens to mention little of the arrows that make war as good a business as any charity I know with a burn rate equal and opposite to our “aufaces” burning, is like taking a bath with a snake who doesn’t really care what is up or down as long as he is the last one sitting at the table; book ends is what comes to mind and I am not suggesting that we burn King George or his books simply use the books, at least, as bed supports for those without a roof over their head who believed that Soros and Co. are all about good when in fact they are simply sorry God limited their rapacious stay on earth.


What the likes of Soros and Buffet and Perelman and Martha and Co hadn’t figured on was the power of the Internet to have them cough up, while we at NextraTerrestrial in particular have them chew on their words to mention in passing what folks do in the privacy of their homes should remain there for only their maids to see and to then spill their beans, privacy is all in the eye of the beholder. Today we have enough laws in place to protect the privacy of the individual while the chiefs carry on with reckless abandonment.[3]


Few if any of the superrich can attribute their financial success to simply having played it smart and honestly especially if they believe that God is watching every one of their moves and why it is that I for one pay no attention to what someone is worth unless of course I am preparing for battle with them.


I know full well that there isn’t an emperor out there with clothes made of quite the silk like those folks quite like my own father who will no doubt remain humble to his last day, a man I am very proud to call “father…who never once tT-Oot-ed his own horn, not even to this day” [sic].


We can only begin to celebrate New Beginnings as we clean up the train wrecks from the past and of course there will be more blood spilled since few of us overindulgent folks don’t even know how to clean dishes to mention little of those who hoard who eat like they are at a bar hoping to pick up a chick or tTOo instead of waiting for their guests to be seated and then to dis-card.


anD to those who are chomping at the bit at taking a byte out of me I can only say “Ugh” and wish you the best. Just make sure you have done your homework and eaten your whities first, i.e don’t gamble on me ending up broke having to wash dishes.


Remember inbreeding is simply not good for the heart muscle and can contribute to hypertension which puts each one of us with Lilly white skins in the same grouping as inner city African Americans who are more equipped than most of us in all areas bar none. We seem though to be gaining ground in these two particular categories which inflict further hardship of those mostly on the receiving end of what comes out of a barrel of a gun.


We should never forget what a barrel of fun someone like Senator Byrd got during the off season wanting to keep his aim true for when shooting fish in a barrel. Bird in the hand better than even one dead bird, nothing though like a picture perfect child schooled never to lie, steal or cheat.


Ancestors of slaves suffer in many different ways, including the ancestors of those who built the pyramids, pyramid schemes no different to what has ultimately begotten investors believing in Ronald “O. Ring Perelman” who wears his religion on his labels while socking it to those who can least afford it coming back time and again since no one has yet to cut off his shirt sleeves, so much for shirt sleeves to shirt sleeves in 3 generations.


African Americans were not as fortunate as the Israelites who had Moses to lead them on the road to righteousness. Jesse Jackson and his Reverand pal Stockton have more in common with the racist whites of South Africa who continue to wreck havoc on the Black masses as they deprive them of their stock to mention little of what remains of their heritage all now blowing in the wind.


The winds of change are taking hold everywhere in the world. African Americans are a tired people fed up with the bullshit of being told how much white liberals and their stooges are protecting their households as they eat on the run, prison one hell-ava safety net when in fact they should be earning higher incomes, leapfrogging whites in terms of benefiting from having simply equal education including knowing about the food groups, that less is better.


As the tire meets the road and people of color realize that they are much more evolved than those folks who pontificate at establishments like Yale, Oxford and Cambridge who would all be better off with computers doing their talking, filtering out their utter nonsense, the trip ahead will get lighter especially as we at NextraTerrestrial expose these blighters for who they really are to mention little of the end of the rainbow being more at the middle than at the end.


Only as we move away from white and black where there is no color will we all begin to experience the richness of the colors never to forget the values and those brave individuals who first set the pace, i.e. Pythagoras, Jesus Christ and Mohammed.













8   Master File No. XXX (SHS)




10   – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – x


11   IN RE:




13   – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – x




15              DEPOSITION OF V


16                Thursday, October 17, 2002


17                        10:15 a.m.


18         XXX Apes


19                     One Beacon Street


20                   Boston, Massachusetts


21            Reporter:  XXX






1   A P P E A R A N C E S




3           XXX


4           (BY: X.)


5           West X


8           Counsel for the Plaintiffs






11           XXX


12           (BY: X ESQ.)


13           Four X Square


14           Counsel for the Defendants


17                                                                        3




1                       I N D E X




3   X


4      (By X

5                     E X H I B I T S


6   NO.                 DESCRIPTION                PAGE


7    1  Subpoena duces tecum                         19


8    2  Revlon sales force directory                 88


9    3  Memo from X                               128


10    4  Memo from X            132


11    5  Memo from X            136


12    6  X 1998 supplier agreement                 161


13    7  X- partnership meeting, 10/23/XX    183


14    8  Letter from George X to X, X


15    9  Free goods proposal summary by quarter      306


16   10  E-mail from X, 12/3/98         309


17   11  E-mail from X, 5/7/98              312


18   12  E-mail from X, 5/20/98             319


19   13  E-mail from X 5/29/98             321


20   14  Letter to X, 10/6/98      324


21   15  Document X A-00079 through 00081    326


22   16  Letter to Kathy X, 11/10/99    332


23   17  E-mail from X, 3/25/98             334


24   18  Dating program fact sheet                   338






1                   P R O C E E D I N G S


2                     V


3   a witness called on behalf of the Plaintiffs, having


4   first been duly sworn, was deposed and testified as


5   follows:


6                    DIRECT EXAMINATION


7       BY MR. K:


8       Q.  Good morning.  Good morning, Mr. V & Revlon’s attorney.


9   Good morning, Mr. V.  My name is Jeffrey


10   K.  I represent the plaintiffs in a lawsuit


11   that’s directed against Revlon and a number of their


12   officers.  You may have read that complaint, and I


13   probably will get around to asking you whether you


14   did or you did not.


15               I would, however, mention to you that


16   notwithstanding the many pages of the complaint,


17   which is the term that we apply to the description


18   of the claims that we have against the defendants,


19   that the case really is based upon the belief on the


20   part of the plaintiffs, who are the shareholders of


21   Revlon, for a specified period of time that


22   basically goes through the end of 1997 through 1998


23   that the condition of Revlon was not accurately


24   depicted to the shareholders as derived or









1   determined by looking at the financial records and


2   the public reports pertaining to the financial


3   records and documents such as the 10(k) and the


4   10(q), because, and this is very simple, we believe


5   that during that time there were artifices that were


6   used for the purpose of showing sales that were


7   greater than what the natural market conditions


8   would have permitted and allowed, and simultaneously


9   there were artifices that were undertaken in order


10   to hold down the expenses.  The consequence of those


11   two would show a company that was in better


12   financial health or in a better — or in a better


13   condition economically than would have otherwise


14   been ascertained by simply looking at the public


15   documents that were disseminated by Revlon and its


16   officers.


17               That’s really as simple as the case is,


18   notwithstanding what ends up being a veritable


19   scattershot of allegations that are directed in


20   going through the complaint.


21               I don’t know, and I will ask you


22   shortly, whether or not you’ve had your deposition


23   taken before, because it’s a fairly unique process,


24   but I do want to emphasize that the intent of this









1   is a very simple one.  That is to find out what it


2   is that you know, when you knew it, and whether or


3   not any of the facts that you may be able to present


4   or any of the best estimates that you may be able to


5   provide will assist us in coming to a determination


6   as to whether or not those allegations and


7   statements regarding what I just said were, in fact,


8   accurate and whether or not there are other places


9   we may be able to locate or look to find out whether


10   those statements are accurate.


11               Now, I believe, though I am not certain,


12   that once we get going into your answering questions


13   instead of me talking, we will find out that you


14   have a significant amount of experience in sales and


15   probably in the sales of cosmetics.  That’s my way


16   of telling you very simply that if you want to, you


17   probably have the capability to answer my questions


18   by talking rings around my specific questions.  That


19   will prolong the deposition.  It also will confuse


20   me terribly, because I’m probably not as bright as


21   you are or as well prepared as you are for this


22            deposition.


24            “The fact that I was chief operating officer of Hang Ten International will no doubt allow me to hang you out to dry to mention little of my stint as CEO of a public company that did rather well for its shareholders to mention little of the fact that I have this serfer dude Gary S. Gevisser [GG] in my corner and he happens to be one of the best cut men in the business, Footsak to boot to mention just in passing Perfect Storm III which is about to erupt at his latest website NextraTerrestrial as in NextTrial as in yada yada yard, yacht, jetting soon to TimpucktTOo although Mars may be the safest slingshot back to the year dot” [sic].


23               The intent, hopefully, is not to achieve


24   that because it makes the process more arduous and









1   longer than and lengthier than it has to be, and


2   hopefully we all have other productive ways to spend


3   our time.


4               So if you get the gist of the direction


5   of a particular question, I’d encourage you to


6   answer that within the gist and context of the


7   direction of that question rather than give a


8   literal answer that may, in fact, end up being


9   deceptive when looked at objectively.


10               I will try, and it’s a hard thing for


11   lawyers to do, to translate my questions from


12   legalese into English so they can be easily


13   understood.  If at any time you don’t understand the


14   direction of my questions or where I am going,


15   please, just let me know that, and I’ll be happy to


16   rephrase the question.


17               Conversely, understand that you are the


18   master of this deposition, “Don’t pay any attention to the onshore wind it is just GG flapping his wings although it could simply be Tippytoe waking up believing he tTOo can fly”, though there are rules


19   that apply to that declaration, and any time you


20   want to consult with your attorney, take a break,


21   rest for a while, or feel that for some reason you


22   can’t give your best answer to a question that I


23   ask, don’t hesitate to say that.


24               This isn’t a game of trickery in which









1   I’m trying to catch you or find you in a physical


2   situation in which you can’t give your best answer.


3   We are simply attempting to arrive at the truth, and


4   the duration of this deposition, both from my


5   perspective, from your attorney’s perspective, and


6   from your perspective, can either be fairly lengthy


7   or fairly short, depending upon how quickly we get


8   through these documents and how direct the answers


9   are “and then we can all party at my place as in 5,6,7 and because others might get hold of this deposition at a later date please call me or GG at 1-858-SEL-NEXT for my street address” [sic].


10               I apologize for a long preamble, but I


11   did want you to know what my perspective of it is in


12   trying to make this as comfortable an environment


13   for you to proceed.


14               Do you have any questions up to this


15   point “including anything you would like to hear about the color wheel as Sebastian Capella’s classes are filling up rather quickly these days?” [sic].


16       A.  No.


17       Q.  Have you at any time read the complaint that


18   is the gravamen of this litigation that you’re


19   appearing in?


20       A.  No.


21       Q.  Now, were you ever the recipient of any


22   memorandums that described the nature of this


23   litigation, if you can recall?


24       A.  I received some information regarding coming









1   up here for the deposition, but I can’t remember


2   specifically what was in it.


3       Q.  I see.  And how did you receive that?


4       A.  I believe it came by mail.


5       Q.  And was that served by one of the law firms?


6       A.  Yes.


7       Q.  And we served you and asked you to appear


8   here to give information?


9       A.  Right.


10       Q.  Am I correct — and I’m not inferring that I


11   know absolutely, am I correct that we noticed that


12   deposition, which is a long term for saying we


13   attempted to hold the deposition in New York, but it


14   was your preference that we hold it in Boston?


15       A.  I think I wanted it in Boston.  I don’t


16   remember if New York was an alternative.  I don’t


17   remember.


18       Q.  And the reason you wanted it in Boston, I


19   presume, is because this is your home or this is


20   where you work?


21       A.  Right.


22       Q.  Could you tell me what knowledge — what


23   understanding you have regarding the lawsuit at this


24   point in time, apart from the summary that I just









1   provided you?


2       A.  Actually, you summarized it pretty good.


3   That would be my knowledge of it.


4       Q.  Apart from that, can you recall any other


5   discussion that you had regarding this lawsuit,


6   apart from conversations that you had with counsel?


7       A.  No.


8       Q.  Have you discussed your appearance here


9   today with anyone, apart from counsel?


10       A.  You’re talking like my wife or something?


11       Q.  Yes, exactly “unless of course you have tTOo” [sic]


12       A.  Sure.


13       Q.  And what did you say to your wife?


14       A.  Well, I told my wife and friends that I


15   would be up in Boston on a court case.


16       Q.  Did they ask you what the case was about or


17   why you were going there?


18       A.  I didn’t volunteer that.


19       Q.  Did anyone ask you what the case was about


20   or why you were coming here?


21       A.  My wife.


22       Q.  Or anyone else that you might have talked


23   to.


24       A.  Family.  No.









1       Q.  What was your reaction upon learning that


2   you were going to — that you were served with a


3   subpoena and that you were going to appear here?


4       A.  When the guy showed up at my door, I was


5   surprised.


6       Q.  The subpoena was personally handed to you?


7       A.  Right.


8       Q.  It did not upset you, I hope.


9       A.  No.


10       Q.  And where were you served?


11       A.  My yard.


12       Q.  Your…


13       A.  Yard.


14       Q.  On your yacht?


15       A.  No, yard.


16       Q.  Yard.  I’m sorry, yard, yacht.  I’m from the


17   West Coast, “grew up in New York, learned a thing or tTOo on the streets of Boston including how to respond to fast balls thrown at or near head” [sic].


18       A.  I haven’t got my yacht yet, but I was in my


19   yard.


20       Q.  I understand.


21               What did you next do?  And by that I


22   don’t mean finish mowing the lawn.  I meant with


23   regard to —


24       A.  I believe it was on a weekend, so I did









1   nothing.  I called the people that — the law firm


2   that was on the deposition, I guess, or whatever


3   you —


4       Q.  And would that have been KKK?


5   Because I believe — they’re my co-counsel.  Again,


6   we’re not trying to trick you, but they certainly


7   would have been the prominent — the firm that was


8   most prominent on that deposition subpoena.


9       A.  That was probably — I called them and asked


10   them what the story was.


11       Q.  Uh-huh.  And when you said “the story,” you


12   wanted to understand what it was that you were


13   expected to do as a result of that?


14       A.  Right.


15       Q.  And had you retained — were you represented


16   by counsel at that point?


17       A.  No.


18       Q.  At some point in time did you retain


19   counsel?


20       A.  You’re talking him?


21       Q.  Well, did you retain any counsel?


22       A.  Other than this gentleman here, Jeff, no.


23       Q.  Did you retain “Mr. Perelman’s sharpshooter? [sic].


24       A.  I called Jeff or Jeff called me, I believe.









1       Q.  Jeff called you.  Now, why would Mr. — do


2   you have any idea as to why [he] would have


3   called you?


4               MR. V & REVLON’S ATTORNEY:  I object as to form.


5       Q.  Did he solicit the representation of you in


6   this — did he offer to represent you in this case?


7       A.  Well, I believe they represented Revlon.


8       Q.  Correct.


9       A.  And do represent Revlon, and that’s how I


10   got involved with Jeff.


11       Q.  I see.  Do you have — apart from [Revlon’s attorneys] who are an excellent firm “who are not exactly getting hand me down suits for being such honorable men” [sic], are you represented by


13   attorneys or counsel in any other matters?


14       A.  No.


15       Q.  Did you consult any other counsel with


16   regard to your appearance here?


17       A.  No.


18       Q.  Did you feel that there was a possibility of


19   a conflict of interest with regard to having


20   yourself represented here by the law firm


21   representing a defendant in the case?


22       A.  No.


23       Q.  Did you understand that at the time that you


24   were served with the subpoena to appear here that









1   you were obligated to search for and present


2   documents that would be responsive to the papers


3   that were handed to you?


4       A.  Someone asked me — I don’t remember who —


5   if I had records.


6       Q.  Do you recall that there was included with


7   the notice and subpoena duces tecum a request that


8   you provide documents that related to a number of


9   subjects?


10       A.  I remember that.


11       Q.  Could you tell me what you did in order to


12   comply with that request for the documents “other than seeking out Mr. Gevisser’s high-school Latin teacher for a refresher course in what it means to tell the whole truth and nothing butt the truth so help me dog. Tippytoe is that you breathing in my ear?” [sic] today?


13       A.  Nothing.


14       Q.  Now, is there a reason why you did nothing?


15       A.  I have nothing.


16       Q.  Did you understand that once you were


17   represented by “Arpes” [sic], you were entitled to


18   seek their advice with regard to responding to that


19   subpoena duces tecum?


20       A.  Ask me that again.


21       Q.  Did you understand, once you had been


22   contacted and apparently an agreement materialized


23   in which they would represent you here today, that


24   they could assist you in responding to that subpoena









1   duces tecum?


2       A.  Yes.


3       Q.  And did you ask them to assist you in


4   locating those documents?


5       A.  Not specifically, no.


6       Q.  Is there a reason why you didn’t?


7       A.  I didn’t have the documents.  I didn’t —


8   other than that, no.  I didn’t have them, so I — I


9   didn’t realize — no, I didn’t.


10       Q.  If you were aware, speaking hypothetically,


11   that you were to produce not only the documents that


12   you had but the documents in your possession, which


13   I guess is the same, custody, which is a little bit


14   different, because that means it may be held by


15   someone else, or control, and control would mean


16   through any agent including the law firm, would you


17   have reacted different to that request?


18               MR. V’s & REVLON’S ATTORNEY:  I’m going to object as to


19   form.  I don’t understand the question.


20               MR. K:  Let me rephrase the


21   question and in the process start the flywheel.


22       Q.  Once you have proceeded with a law firm,


23   they represent — they are fiduciaries to you; and


24   therefore, they are under your control.  Did you ask









1   the “Apes” [sic] law firm to proceed and locate


2   those documents that were responsive to the request


3   directed at you?


4       A.  No.


5       Q.  Did they offer at any time to do that?


6       A.  I don’t remember.


7       Q.  What is it that you don’t remember about it?


8       A.  Whether I offered or asked them or they


9   offered.


10       Q.  So you don’t recall whether or not any


11   search had been undertaken of documents responsive


12   to the subpoena that had been done either by a law


13   firm or an auditor or any other consultants that you


14   may deal with?


15       A.  My assumption at the time was that someone


16   would provide the materials.  I didn’t have them, so


17   someone would, I assume.


18       Q.  And who did you expect, of the people that


19   you were talking to —


20       A.  Probably the law firm.


21       Q.  Okay.  I will ask you, are there any


22   materials that you’ve presented here that have —


23   that you’re producing responsive to the document


24   request?









1       A.  Personally?


2       Q.  Yes.


3       A.  Did I have anything?  No.


4       Q.  Or provided to you by your agent, the law


5   firm?


6       A.  I don’t have anything.


7       Q.  Thank you.


8               MR. K:  “Mr. V’s & Revlon’s attorney” [sic], do you have any


9   documents that you are here to provide me in


10   accordance with the document request that was served


11   on your client?


12               MR. V’s & REVLON’S ATTORNEY:  No.  The witness has told


13   you at least twice that he possesses no documents


14   responsive to the request.


15               MR. K:  Yes, I understand that.


16   And my point was that, as his agent, he could have


17   controlled your activity in that regard, speaking


18   hypothetically — I’m not trying to — maybe I am


19   trying to make a legal record, but nothing was done


20   to respond to that?


21               MR. V’s & REVLON’S ATTORNEY:  Well, for the record, what


22   was done to respond to it was to confirm that Mr.


23   V did not possess any documents within his


24   possession, custody, or control responsive to the









1   subpoena.


2       Q.  Were questions asked of you as to possible


3   sources that you could control to locate documents


4   that would be responsive to the deposition?


5       A.  No.


6       Q.  In fact, nothing was asked of you with


7   regard to responding to the document request apart


8   from whether you had any in your possession?


9       A.  Correct.


10       Q.  Thank you.


11               MR. K:  May I, just to confirm


12   this, mark as Exhibit — is there numbering that’s


13   been established, Jeff?


14               MR. V & REVLON’S ATTORNEY:  Consecutive?  No, we’ve


15   been starting with 1 for each deposition.


16               MR. K:  I see.  So we will call


17   this G-1?  Is that the thought?


18               MR. V & REVLON’S ATTORNEY:  That’s fine.


19               MR. K:  Could I have this


20   identified as Exhibit G-1, and please show it to the


21   witness.


22               (Document marked as V Exhibit 1


23               for identification)


24       Q.  Please look at that, Mr. — V.









1               MR. K:  And I will stress that


2   “V” [sic] is the name that Mr. V has asked that he


3   be addressed by, “different to vini, vidi VS et al. Please Lord hold GG off from launching Perfect Storm III at least until my bosses girlfriend approves my year end bonus” [sic].


4       Q.  And my question’s going to be a very simple


5   one.  Is that a copy of the document that was


6   originally served upon you?


7       A.  (Witness reviews document) I can’t remember.


8       Q.  Do you have any reason to doubt that that’s


9   a copy of the document?


10       A.  No.


11       Q.  Okay.  Thank you.


12               MR. K:  You can give that back to


13   the court reporter, and perhaps I should say that


14   during the course of this deposition you will see


15   that there are documents that we’ll number


16   sequentially V 1 through V 22, and


17   sometimes you will recognize them and sometimes you


18   will not.  They simply represent milestones and/or


19   pieces of evidence that we use.


20       Q.  This is principally background for a short


21   period of time, Mr. V.  I don’t know what your


22   time limitations are, but I will do my best to


23   attempt to conclude this deposition either today or


24   early tomorrow morning.









1               MR. V & REVLON’S ATTORNEY:  I’ll just note that under


2   the rules, you don’t have the option of continuing


3   till tomorrow morning.


4               MR. K:  I believe that that is a


5   statement of your counsel, and he’s entitled to make


6   that.  I don’t believe that that applies in this


7   jurisdiction for a number of reasons.  And we are in


8   Massachusetts under the federal court rules that


9   apply in this jurisdiction, principally because


10   the — your law firm determined that they preferred


11   to take the deposition here.


12               MR. V & REVLON’S ATTORNEY:  We actually operate


13   pursuant to the rules of Judge Stein in the Southern


14   District of New York, and also under the Federal


15   Rules of Civil Procedure, which also limit you to


16   one day.


17               MR. K:  Yes, and I understand the


18            position “and for that matter so does GG whose name I understand has come up in at least one other deposition involving former executives of Revlon such as yourself to mention in passing Judge Jack Weinstein’s familiarity with Mr. Gevisser’s past and God only knows what GG is up to right now given the fact that he started his BUS back in 1989 at 1 Wall Street giving the most deserving i.e. Bank of New York et al a haircut aided by a University of Virgin Law School grauduate who has probably forgotten that GG knows a thing or tTOo about his roots, never to sweep things under the carpet especially when there is time left in the day to make a buck or tTOo and seize those by the coattails who continue to play it fast and loose. GG’s grandfather, who along with the ‘poor Jews’ of eastern Europe got the discounted ship fares to places like South Africa, began his rather successful trading career by picking up unbroken bottles off the streets of Durban, placing them in a wheelbarrow, quickwheels to boot, before moving on to the slaughter houses where he traded up to wheeling and dealing in animal bones creating a wake that had his grandson eventually begin cleaning up the mess on Wall Street and what a Christmess 2002 is going to be, although things should improve in 2003 with GG having established a presence first in the Eastern district and now in the Southern District covering essentially the tTOo remaining quadrants creating a springboard to have the rest of us sling our spears and arrows forgetting we are all part of one planetary system or we could just as easily end up in one big melting pot in Timbuktu where it all began” [sic].

19              And the worst thing that could happen is


19   for counsel to start arguing, but the opportunity


20   was provided to get a protective order, and the


21   content of the notice specifically says that it will


22   continue from day to day until concluded.  We will,


23   nonetheless, make that academic, I hope, in getting


24   this done today.









1       Q.  Could you — and this falls under the


2   background.  I said that there were some questions


3   that would be asked that weren’t immediately


4   apparent to you, and this falls under the category


5   of background.  Could you please summarize your


6   educational background.  I don’t care where you went


7   to high school, but let’s start with the diploma in


8   high school and then tell me what you did after


9   that, and the years.


10       A.  And the years?


11       Q.  And correspond it to years in the interest


12   of attempting to make this, as I say, as quick a


13   deposition as possible.  And I’ll be listening to


14   you even though I’m getting up and getting a cup of


15            coffee, if no one objects “although I probably should just stick with herbel tea different to Mr. Gevisser’s “Verbal [non-sic] remedies for saving the wor.d.” [sic].

16            A.  Okay.  Boston College, four years.  That’s


17   it.


18       Q.  And can you tell me when you graduated from


19   Boston College?


20       A.  ’68.


21       Q.  And what degree did you have at that time?


22       A.  English, BA, I guess.


23       Q.  And after you graduated from BC in 1968, did


24   you subsequently apply to any graduate schools in









1   order to gain further education?


2       A.  I went to a couple of courses at night.


3   Babson.


4       Q.  At Boston College?


5       A.  Babson.


6       Q.  At Babson.  But you graduated from Boston


7   College?


8       A.  Just for one semester.


9       Q.  And what courses did you take at Babson?


10       A.  Business.


11       Q.  And could you tell me what your areas of


12   concentration were while you were at Boston College?


13       A.  Liberal arts.


14       Q.  And what did you view, if you had any view,


15   of what you would be doing after you graduateed from


16   Boston College with your degree in liberal arts “aside from Mr. Gevisser’s Bottoms Up Schooling” [sic].


17       A.  Gainful employment somewhere.  Location


18   unknown.


19       Q.  Because liberal arts didn’t exactly prepare


20   you for anything specific, at least that’s my


21   recollection.  And you, in fact, got, I assume, a


22   degree from Boston College in 1968, I believe you


23   said?


24       A.  Right.









1       Q.  And that would have been just a liberal arts


2   degree, correct?


3       A.  Correct.


4       Q.  And the continuing education that we’re


5   talking about was limited to a number of night


6   courses at Babson?


7       A.  Yes.


8       Q.  And I apologize.  That was my job to


9   actually tell you that the court reporter, who


10   really is the boss here, apart from you as the boss,


11   will indicate to you that gestures or responses that


12   can’t be translated into words are sometimes


13   difficult for her to transcribe.  I apologize to


14   both of you for that.


15               During what period of time did you


16   attend Babson?


17       A.  I believe it was the fall of ’68, I think.


18       Q.  So would it be fair to say that after


19   graduating with a liberal arts degree from Boston


20   College, you went to Babson to just enhance your


21   education in a couple of specific degrees and make


22   you more attractive as an employee candidate?


23       A.  Correct.


24       Q.  Could you tell me whether, at Boston College









1   or beforehand, you received any awards or special


2   recognitions?


3       A.  I can’t remember.


4       Q.  Were you a football player?


5       A.  No.


6       Q.  Earn a letter or anything?


7       A.  No.


8       Q.  You were just a studious student?


9       A.  I was a student.


10       Q.  Did you seek employment during your last


11   year or previously while attending Boston College?


12       A.  Did I seek — come again?


13       Q.  Let me begin.  Did you work while you were


14   going to school at Boston College?


15       A.  Yes.


16       Q.  Please tell me what you did.


17       A.  I worked in a warehouse.


18       Q.  And was that — would I be correct in


19   assuming that that was work that you did like most


20   students do, pick up extra money and allow you to


21   continue with your education?


22       A.  Correct.


23       Q.  It wasn’t intended to light your path to


24   your future employment aspirations?









1       A.  Not really.


2       Q.  Upon graduation or prior to graduation,


3   could you tell me what you did to locate your first


4   employment?


5       A.  I went to work for the company that owned


6   the warehouse.


7       Q.  And what was the name of that company?


8       A.  It was the John E. Cain Company.


9       Q.  What did they do?


10       A.  They were food manufacturers.


11       Q.  What did they manufacture?


12       A.  Mayonnaise — edibles, mayonnaise, potato


13   chips, pickles, ta-da ta-da.


14       Q.  They actually manufactured and didn’t


15   distribute?


16       A.  No, manufactured and distributed.


17       Q.  And you began on a part-time basis, if I’m


18   to understand your testimony correctly, while you


19   were at Boston College and then progressed to your


20   being offered a full-time job upon graduation?


21       A.  That’s correct.


22       Q.  So in 1968, upon graduation, you went to


23   work for X Cain?


24       A.  C-a-i-n “and don’t blame my dna on all the blotches that will appear on these pages as you take me through the grinder bringing up stuff best dealt with by selective memory a product of poor parenting Mr. Able attorney” [sic]









1       Q.  Where are they located?


2       A.  They were located in Cambridge, Mass. at the


3   time.


4       Q.  Are they still in business?


5       A.  Yes.


6       Q.  And how long did you work for them?


7       A.  Maybe six months.


8       Q.  Would that have put it into the end of 1968


9   or the beginning of 1969 when you left them?


10       A.  Beginning of ’69, I believe.


11       Q.  And what was your next employment?


12       A.  U.S. Army.


13       Q.  Were you drafted?


14       A.  Yes.


15       Q.  And what happened — where did you go and


16   what happened in the U.S. Army?


17       A.  I was drafted and then went overseas.


18       Q.  Would that have been Vietnam?


19       A.  Correct.


20       Q.  Were you decorated at all?


21       A.  Yes.


22       Q.  And what were you decorated with?


23       A.  Bronze star.


24       Q.  And at some point in time did you leave the









1   U.S. Army?


2       A.  Yes.


3       Q.  And what year would that have been?


4       A.  Probably two to two and a half years later.


5       Q.  So we’re talking approximately 1971 or ’72?


6       A.  Right.


7       Q.  And were you injured during your time in


8   Vietnam?


9       A.  I was injured before I went in a parachuting


10   accident.


11       Q.  But that isn’t what you won your bronze star


12   for; is that correct?


13       A.  No.


14       Q.  Because you win a bronze star for bravery


15   and courage in the face of battle?


16       A.  Correct.


17       Q.  And that, in fact, happened to you?


18       A.  Yes.


19       Q.  When you returned in 1971 or ’72, did you


20   then seek other employment?


21       A.  Yes.


22       Q.  And when did you start working for who?


23       A.  I went to work for Chesebrough — a company


24   called Chesebrough-Pond’s.









1       Q.  And what year would that have been?


2       A.  C-h-e-s-e-b-r-o-u-g-h.  ’72, ’73, in there.


3       Q.  And what was the position that you had with


4   them?


5       A.  A sales rep.


6       Q.  So is it correct to say that you —


7   following your time in the military, your first job


8   involved sales?


9       A.  Correct.


10       Q.  And did you leave Chesebrough-Pond’s in


11   1973?


12       A.  Leave?


13       Q.  Yes.


14       A.  I went there, right.


15       Q.  When did you leave Chesebrough-Pond’s “and time is getting short I have no idea how long I can hold off Mr. Gevisser so please stay with the program, okay” [sic]?


16       A.  Okay.  I’m going to get close, but may not


17   be totally accurate.


18       Q.  Your best estimate is fine.


19       A.  Okay.  ’73 — Chesebrough-Pond’s was


20   acquired by Unilever.


21       Q.  The British corporation “and of course you are aware of momworker63’s plea on 6-11-99 where there is reference to Uni-evil?” [sic].


22       A.  British-Dutch, correct.  And I left them, I


23   believe, in 1995.


24       Q.  So correct me if I’m wrong, you spent over









1   20 years at Chesebrough-Pond’s/Unilever?


2       A.  Right.


3       Q.  And could you tell me the progression of


4   your titles, and then I’ll ask you the


5   responsibilities that correspond to those titles —


6   you can do it all at once, again, if you want to


7   save time — from the time that you began at


8   Chesebrough-Pond’s.


9       A.  I was a sales rep, then I think I became a


10   district manager.


11       Q.  For sales?


12       A.  For sales.  A regional manager, then a


13   general manager of a small group, then I became a


14   vice president of sales, then a senior VP of sales.


15       Q.  Then senior VP of sales?


16       A.  Yes.  I think that was, you know — give me


17   a little leeway on the titles.


18       Q.  I will.  Senior VP of sales, though, was the


19   highest position?  And you know what I mean by


20   “highest position.”


21       A.  Then I became a general manager.


22       Q.  That’s higher than senior VP?


23       A.  Yes, within the Unilever company.


24       Q.  And what year would that have been?









1       A.  The last title?


2       Q.  Yes.


3       A.  Probably ’93 maybe.


4       Q.  Now, could you tell me what your


5   responsibilities were as district sales manager?


6       A.  A district, Boston district, I believe, with


7   maybe four or five people reporting to me, a


8   customer base, small customers.


9       Q.  So is it fair to say that your job at that


10   point was to manage and oversee hopefully the


11   increase of sales of Chesebrough-Pond’s product?


12       A.  My job at the time would have been to manage


13   a group of people and make the objectives, whatever


14   they would be.


15       Q.  And were the objectives normally to increase


16   sales?


17       A.  Could have been.  May not have been.


18       Q.  What other objectives normally were there at


19   that time?


20       A.  At times we didn’t need to increase sales.


21       Q.  Could you describe for me at that time the


22   products that you were principally involved with?


23       A.  They would have been — Chesebrough-Pond’s


24   primary products were Vaseline, Q-Tips, Pond’s cold









1   cream.


2       Q.  They have an overall title such as


3   consumer —


4       A.  Yes, it would be the consumer products


5   division.  Well, it was a consumer products company.


6       Q.  Yes.  And so that we don’t have to go


7   through it one by one, were the sequential titles


8   that you had as regional manager, and then I missed


9   one.  After regional manager you became district


10   manager?


11       A.  No, I think after regional manager I became


12   a general manager of a small group.


13       Q.  And when you say “a small group,” correct me


14   if I’m wrong, that means that within


15   Chesebrough-Pond’s there were different groups that


16   had responsibility for different segments of the


17   market?


18       A.  By product line.


19       Q.  By product line.  And what product line were


20   you the general manager of?


21       A.  Smaller volume, nonadvertised products.


22       Q.  Such as…?


23       A.  Oh, gee.


24       Q.  If you don’t recall, please, that’s fine.









1       A.  Yes, small products.


2       Q.  Now, when you became vice president of


3   sales, did that responsibility change?


4       A.  Then I became responsible, yes, for all the


5   products.


6       Q.  And that means cold creams, Vaseline, the


7   entire consumer products line?


8       A.  Right.


9       Q.  Now, when you became senior vice president


10   of sales, could you describe how your


11   responsibilities changed, if at all?


12       A.  The business was larger.  We — I had


13   internal responsibilities in addition to external


14   responsibilities, like sales tracking, what we’d


15   call customer marketing, maybe, customer marketing.


16       Q.  Personal relationships?


17       A.  Personal?


18       Q.  Personal relations with clients?


19       A.  Well, that would have been —


20       Q.  Part of the marketing process?


21       A.  No, part of the sales process.


22       Q.  How about budgets?  Were you involved in


23   budgets?


24       A.  Yes.









1       Q.  Was that new at that particular time also —


2       A.  Budgeting was a progressive process.  I


3   mean, if you were district, you had a budget.  If


4   you were a regional manager, you had a budget.  As


5   you went up, you had larger budgets.


6       Q.  And please describe to me how your


7   ascendancy in 1993 to being the general manager


8   changed those responsibilities.


9       A.  Well, 1993 I was working for Unilever, which


10   acquired Chesebrough.  I was transferred to a


11   division — the Elizabeth Arden Cosmetics Company.


12       Q.  So would it be fair to say that the same


13   expertise that you had exhibited with regard to the


14   consumer products division — consumer products


15   line-up for Chesebrough-Pond’s was now transferred


16   to the Elizabeth Arden group?


17       A.  Yes.


18       Q.  Was this your first introduction to


19   cosmetics?


20       A.  Chesebrough had owned a cosmetic business,


21   Cutex Cosmetics, and I, you know, had experience


22   with that there.  And there were some other minor


23   brands that I can’t remember.


24       Q.  Was there a substantive difference in the









1   orientation that you perceived between the way that


2   sales were pursued at Chesebrough-Pond’s in


3   comparison to Unilever?


4       A.  Not really.


5       Q.  It was still principally broken down by


6   product line?


7       A.  Yes.


8       Q.  Am I correct in assuming that your being


9   appointed general manager was a large promotion?


10       A.  It was a promotion.


11       Q.  And how long did that — how long did you


12   continue as general manager of Unilever at this


13   particular point?


14       A.  I left to go to Revlon in ’95.


15       Q.  So is it correct to say that from 1993 to


16   1995 you were the general manager of —


17       A.  The U.S. business — excuse me, North


18   American business for Elizabeth Arden.  Give me a


19   little leeway on the months and years there, will


20   you?


21       Q.  How did you do there?


22       A.  Do where?


23       Q.  At Unilever?


24       A.  How was my performance?









1       Q.  Yes.


2       A.  Pretty good.


3       Q.  And I assume you based that on periodic


4   performance evaluations that you received?


5       A.  Right.


6       Q.  And at some point between 1993 and 1995,


7   could you describe the circumstances that


8   contributed to your decision to leave Unilever and


9   go elsewhere?


10       A.  I was presented with what I considered at


11   the time to be a better opportunity.


12       Q.  And who presented you with that better


13   opportunity?


14       A.  Revlon.


15       Q.  And when were you first put in touch, if you


16   can recall, with the possibility of working for


17   Revlon?


18       A.  Mid-’95.


19       Q.  And how did that occur?


20       A.  Headhunter.


21       Q.  Excuse me?


22       A.  Headhunter.


23       Q.  Was that headhunter initiated by — was that


24   headhunting assignment initiated by you or by the









1   headhunting firm?


2       A.  I was called, so by them.


3       Q.  And who was it who called you?


4       A.  Oh, Christ.  I won’t remember the


5   gentleman’s name.


6       Q.  Well, the firm.  Hendricks & Struggles, for


7   example?


8       A.  No, it was a solo — a single individual


9   that works with Revlon.


10       Q.  And was he internal or external to —


11       A.  External.


12       Q.  And did he have an assignment that he


13   relayed to you?


14       A.  Yes.


15       Q.  And what was his assignment, if you can


16   recall, that he relayed to you?  What was he looking


17   for?


18       A.  An executive VP of sales.


19       Q.  And what did you find attractive about that


20   position?


21       A.  Compensation, responsibility.


22       Q.  It was a — again, I apologize for the


23   legalese.  I should say something like, what made


24   you decide to go?  What I have to do is present it









1   in a factual basis.


2               What was the compensation — the


3   additional compensation that was offered?


4       A.  Probably like — I don’t remember.


5       Q.  Approximately.


6       A.  Maybe a 25 percent increase or something


7   like that.


8       Q.  To what?


9       A.  To the salary?


10       Q.  Yes.


11       A.  Maybe 3x.


12       Q.  And was the compensation the principal


13   motivation that made you consider that —


14       A.  Revlon —


15       Q.  — the Revlon job?


16       A.  — had had a spring of successes, hot


17   products, so it was viewed externally as a company


18   on the move.


19       Q.  Did the fact that it was a domestic


20   corporation enter into your judgment at all,


21   domestically based corporation?


22       A.  No, I was working in New York.  They were in


23   New York.


24       Q.  How about the additional responsibilities









1   which you indicated was an additional inducement?


2   What were those?


3       A.  Larger number of personnel.  More people


4   responsible for.


5       Q.  When you say “larger number of personnel” —


6   and again I’m just trying to discuss it person to


7   person — does that mean more people would be on the


8   reporting team?


9       A.  Two things attracted me there.  It was the


10   people, a larger responsibility, and Revlon’s


11   business was in the mass market as opposed to


12   department stores.


13       Q.  And why is that different?  Why are the mass


14   marketers different from the department stores?


15       A.  A mass market would be Wal-Mart.  Say


16   Wal-Mart, for example.  Department stores would be


17   Federated, Bullocks.  I felt that that class, that


18   group of stores, the department stores, was not


19   going to be a vibrant industry over time.


20       Q.  Is it fair to say that you thought that


21   addressing — more aggressively addressing the mass


22   marketers was an area that you could contribute to


23   for Revlon and that had been underrepresented in


24   their historic sales platform?









1       A.  Not quite.


2       Q.  Tell me where I’m wrong in that statement


3       A.  Revlon always had a good position in mass


4   market.  They were looking to bring in, I think —


5   to bring in an experienced manager to improve their


6   position in that market.


7       Q.  When you said that they had always been


8   positioned in the mass market, was that their entire


9   product line that had always been positioned into


10   the mass market?


11       A.  They had some product lines that were


12   distributed — one or two product lines that were in


13   I’ll call them nonmass market, like a J.C. Penney.


14       Q.  And what was that product line?


15       A.  Ultima.


16       Q.  And, again —


17       A.  Cosmetic business.


18       Q.  Does that include Ultima II, because I see


19   in documents a lot of reference to Ultima II?


20       A.  Yes, right.


21       Q.  And is it common for cosmetic companies to


22   simultaneously address what you termed I think the


23   department stores and the mass market?


24       A.  Unusual.









1       Q.  And is it unusual — and I premise this by


2   saying I’m just speaking English because I used to


3   be the head of a company that was caught in that


4   dynamic, so I’m trying to probably project some of


5   my experience — that you have to be careful about


6   doing that, because the specialty stores, the


7   department stores, react somewhat negatively to the


8   introduction of the product into the mass marketers?


9       A.  Correct.


10       Q.  And that’s because it eliminates their point


11   of distinction?


12       A.  Correct.


13       Q.  So they normally visit some level of


14   retribution to the extent that they can?


15       A.  Correct.


16       Q.  Because they want to maintain their


17   exclusivity and upscale characteristics?


18       A.  Yes.


19       Q.  And, in fact, balancing that — correct me


20   if I’m wrong, this is still background.  Balancing


21   that is really one of the keys that makes a good


22   sales executive?  Balancing — let me rephrase that


23   question.


24               Balancing the requirements of optimizing









1   sales without antagonizing certain segments of the


2   sales — in this case, the department stores — is a


3   real challenge, isn’t it?


4       A.  The former — the first part of your


5   statement is always correct.  Balancing enough


6   multitasks is the responsibility of a good manager.


7               J.C. Penney, which I specifically said,


8   I don’t consider a department store.


9       Q.  Okay.


10       A.  So the balancing act there was not really


11   versus department stores, which Revlon, by the time


12   I got there, did not have a lot of distribution in


13   department stores or, slash, J.C. Penney.


14       Q.  And if you were to characterize the mixes


15   between department stores or specialty stores — and


16   is there a short form that’s used?  Just as the mass


17   merchandisers, is there a short form so I don’t need


18   to use the six or seven words for the segments of


19   the market that I call the specialty stores so we


20   will know one from the other while I talk to you


21   during the course of the deposition?


22       A.  Well, I think the way you described it.


23   You’ve got the specialty stores.  You’ve got


24   department stores.  I call J.C. Penney sort of









1   between that group and the mass.  Then you’ve got


2   the mass group.


3       Q.  When you arrived, could you give me an


4   estimate of what the mix was as between the two?


5       A.  When I went to work for Revlon, I was


6   responsible for mass market.  Not the others.


7       Q.  And what percentage of the consumption of


8   Revlon product — and I’m using the Revlon product


9   name to include all of their product, because I know


10   they have a Revlon division and an Ultima division


11   and an Oil of Olay division — maybe not.  But they


12   have various products within the divisions.  I’m


13   using it to mean all of their product.


14               When you arrived, what was the


15   breakdown, to the best of your recollection, between


16   the —


17       A.  Just a bit of clarification.  Revlon had a


18   cosmetic business, a department store business/J.C.


19   Penney, and a hair care business.


20       Q.  Excuse me? [Sidebar to GG – Please GG this would not be the time for me to pull out an Epilady, now give me a break will you and of course I will be willing to be a trustee of your estate just provide me with a certificate of insurance. Now can I go?” [sic].


21       A.  Hair care.


22       Q.  Yes, hair.


23       A.  I had responsibility for cosmetics, mass


24   cosmetics.









1       Q.  And only?


2       A.  Only.


3       Q.  Is that their largest-selling —


4       A.  It was probably 85 percent.


5       Q.  85 percent.  Now, of that 85 percent of 100


6   percent, what percentage, when you arrived in 1995,


7   was with the specialty stores and what percentage


8   was with the mass merchandising?


9               MR. V & REVLON’S ATTORNEY:  I’m going to object as to


10   form, particularly since I think he indicated he


11   doesn’t quite know how to characterize J.C. Penney.


12               MR. K:  I understand.


13       Q.  That’s just an objection as to form.  You


14   can still answer the question. “This is what happens when you don’t engage your counsel that you can put on a leash and when they misbehave just say “Footsak” which by now you know is South African slang for giving someone a ‘kick in the rear’” [sic].


15       A.  Ask me again.


16       Q.  Sure.  To the best — give me your best


17   estimate of what the breakdown was between the


18   specialty stores and the mass merchandisers at the


19   time of your arrival at Revlon?


20       A.  The mass merchandisers is what I had


21   responsibility for, so that would have been the 85


22   percent or thereabouts.


23       Q.  I see.


24       A.  The remaining 15 percent was split, and I









1   can’t — you know, I can’t tell you what that was.


2       Q.  Let me understand if this is correct.  At


3   the time that you arrived, 85 percent of the


4   cosmetics sold by Revlon were sold to mass


5   merchandisers?


6       A.  Close enough, yes.


7       Q.  And that would have been in 1995?


8       A.  Yes.


9       Q.  And at some time after 1995, did your job


10   responsibilities — did your title change?


11       A.  No.  Whatever the title I had was the title.


12       Q.  And what was that title at Revlon?


13       A.  Executive VP.


14       Q.  Sales?


15       A.  Yes.


16       Q.  And did your job responsibilities as


17   executive VP of sales change at all?


18       A.  Not really, but I’m not quite sure what you


19   mean by that.  Over time some of the other divisions


20   were consolidated, and then I picked up additional


21   responsibility, if that answers your question.


22       Q.  What additional responsibilities?


23       A.  Probably in 1999, maybe, the hair care


24   division was consolidated under my boss, and then I









1   picked up responsibility for that.  Ultima was


2   integrated probably in ’98.


3       Q.  And is Ultima the top-of-the-line product


4   for —


5       A.  It would be the most expensive product.


6       Q.  Isn’t that normally referred to as the


7   top-of-the-line product?


8       A.  Yes, you know.


9       Q.  And that was in 1999?


10       A.  ’99 on — ’98 Ultima maybe, ’99 beauty


11   products.


12       Q.  And you mentioned that this was the result


13   of your assuming responsibility for some of the


14   tasks that had previously been undertaken by, quote,


15   your boss.  Who was your boss at that time?


16       A.  Well, my boss, Kathy X.


17       Q.  And what was her position?


18       A.  President.  President of U.S.X, you know.


20       Q.  And is she still — do you know whether she


21   is still with —


22       A.  No, she’s not.


23       Q.  And do you know where she is?


24       A.  No.









1       Q.  Do you know the — can you describe the


2   circumstances of her leaving Revlon?


3       A.  She left Revlon probably in ’99.


4       Q.  And do you know why she left?


5       A.  No.


6       Q.  Do you know what the rumors were why she


7   left?


8       A.  The rumors?


9       Q.  Uh-huh.


10       A.  No.


11       Q.  Did you ever hear that there was


12   disagreement between Ms. X and other members of


13   the management and the board of directors regarding


14   the direction of the company?


15       A.  There were always rumors about management in


16   disagreement with other management, so sure.  Yes,


17   that would be an answer.  Yes.


18       Q.  And what is the — can you recall the last


19   time that you talked to Ms. Dwyer?


20       A.  Can I recall the last time I talked to Kathy X?  It has to be two plus years.


22       Q.  Two…?


23       A.  Over two years.


24       Q.  Two years ago?









1       A.  Right.


2       Q.  So that would have been in 2000?


3       A.  Right.


4               MR. V & REVLON’S ATTORNEY:  He said over two years ago.


5       A.  It’s been a while.


6       Q.  It’s been a while.  What was that


7   discussion, the substance of that discussion?  Was


8   it social or business?


9       A.  Probably social.


10       Q.  And where was she at that time?


11       A.  Working or physically?


12       Q.  Working.


13       A.  I don’t know what she was — I don’t think


14   she was working.


15       Q.  And physically where was she at that time?


16       A.  In New York City.


17       Q.  Do you have any reason to believe that she


18   isn’t still in New York City?


19       A.  I have no idea where she is.


20       Q.  And as you were talking socially, is there


21   some reason why you — is there a reason why you


22   haven’t talked to her since that time somewhat over


23   two years or two years ago?


24       A.  Neither I nor her have initiated a









1   conversation.


2       Q.  But if you wanted to, how would you go about


3   doing that?


4       A.  I haven’t wanted to, so I wouldn’t know how.


5       Q.  Do you have a phone number for her?


6       A.  No.


7       Q.  Did she initiate the call or you?


8       A.  What call?


9       Q.  The last time you spoke to her?


10       A.  I didn’t say there was a call.


11       Q.  Oh, I’m sorry.  What were the circumstances?


12       A.  I think it was a “Christmess” [sic] as party.


13       Q.  And what Christmas party was that?


14       A.  I can’t remember.  Somebody had a Christmas


15   party, maybe one of the people I worked with, and


16   she was there.


17       Q.  Not a business Christmas party?


18       A.  No.


19       Q.  And would you be kind enough to describe to


20   me the circumstances of your leaving Revlon.  First,


21   correct me if I’m wrong, you were executive vice


22   president of sales.  You were attracted there in


23   1995 and had a salary somewhere in the $3X


24   range.  It represented a premium of approximately 25









1   percent over what you were previously earning.


2               From that time in 1995 you had some


3   additional responsibilities, but your job title


4   remained the same.  Could you tell me from 1995 what


5   job reviews you can recall that you had and whether


6   you enjoyed increased salaries or bonuses?  And I


7   could go over these one by one — but I’m trying,


8   again, to satisfy the requirement of getting this


9   done — and then the circumstances that caused to


10   you leave.


11       A.  Okay.  So why don’t you ask me a question,


12   and I’ll answer it.


13       Q.  Yes.  Please tell me in 1995 how you began


14   to undertake the responsibilities that you


15   understood to be inherent in your job.


16       A.  I showed up for work and went to work.


17       Q.  Did you put together a sales team?


18       A.  There was a team in place.


19       Q.  Did you change that sales team that was in


20   place?


21       A.  Over the course of the first couple of


22   years, yes.


23       Q.  So from 1995 to 1997 you changed the


24   composition of the sales team?









1       A.  Yes.


2       Q.  And what was the reason for changing the


3   composition of the sales team?


4       A.  Improve the quality of the people and


5   reflect the environment, the external customer


6   environment.


7       Q.  Did you change the structural way that the


8   sales department functioned?


9       A.  Yes.


10       Q.  And how did you — and what form did that


11   change take?


12       A.  Probably the strategy — the best strategy


13   that I would explain to you would be the emergence


14   of the significant large customers requiring more


15   focus.  So more time spent on large customers, less


16   time on smaller customers.


17       Q.  So would it be fair for me to say that


18   between 1995 and 1997, either based upon your


19   historic experience or your experience at Revlon,


20   you came to believe that large customers represented


21   a more productive area to increase sales than a


22   small individual customer?


23       A.  It was acknowledgement of a fact.  The fact


24   was they did more of the business, so you had to be









1   structured to take advantage of that.


2       Q.  And in response to that fact that apparently


3   wasn’t yet reflected, from your perspective, in the


4   sales team, what did you do?


5       A.  Structured the department, the sales group,


6   to focus on where the best business opportunities


7   were.


8       Q.  So would it be correct to say that you


9   reconfigured the sales team so that effort was more


10   concentrated on some larger accounts?


11       A.  Correct.


12       Q.  And how did you structure the larger


13   accounts?


14       A.  There were probably 10 accounts that maybe


15   did 75 percent of the business.


16       Q.  Really? So was the previous person doing the job on dope?


17       A.  Thereabouts.  So we made those — we put


18   teams on those customers, a sales team to service


19   that customer.


20       Q.  Presumably on the recognition that a


21   disproportionate amount of the sales effort was


22   being placed in generating less than 25 percent of


23   the sales?


24       A.  Right.









1       Q.  This happened between 1995 and 1997.  Did


2   that continue in 1998?


3       A.  It was really — once you began the process,


4   there were fewer customers controlling the bigger


5   part of the business, so it was a process that was


6   driven externally, that you had to take advantage of


7   that, where you had — maybe there’s five customers


8   today that — you know, I’ve been out of the


9   business a couple of years.  Maybe there are five


10   customers today that do 75 percent of the business.


11       Q.  And that means that the process that we’re


12   talking about continued in 1998.  Were there any


13   other substantive changes in orientation at Revlon


14   that you initiated in your capacity as executive


15   vice president?


16       A.  Well, all of them would have revolved


17   around — evolved or revolved around a customer


18   where you wanted to have as much support as you


19   could develop against a key customer.


20       Q.  So – “Please GG, stop with the SICs it is liable to screw things up and considering I was just in hospital after you impregnated me with sum fukukta stone, got lost getting here no thanks to you, so please go check out the surf…Oh so while I am here all cooped up in this room with these sweaty smelly highly forgetful folk you’re on the beach with the dog chatting up all the good looking women? Now can I please go back to work? [sic]”


21       A.  So that might have included more people,


22   internal staff that would be structured to help


23   support those customers, working closer with


24   marketing, manufacturing, whatever.









1       Q.  So is it fair to say that you wanted to


2   create an interrelationship with the customers that


3   made — that created a mutual independence so that


4   their loyalty to Revlon product would be enhanced?


5       A.  Yes.  I mean, that’s like — yes, correct.


6       Q.  I understand — I saw on your face it was,


7   “Of course, dummy.  That’s of course what you do in


8   sales.”


9       A.  But I think — let me just expand a little


10   further.


11       Q.  Please. “Because despite my having to contend with GG’s constant interruptions I can still play ball and good looking enough to have attracted one of the brightest and best looking women under the sun all compliments though to Campbell Soup who allows me to dream and make love to her day and night” [sic].


12       A.  With a key customer, whatever that customer


13   would be, you wanted the corporation to have


14   exposure to that customer, so if you were developing


15   a business plan for a customer, you could get input


16   from other disciplines other than just sales, so


17   that everyone felt they had a part of it, understood


18   the customer.  So if you’re going to make a widget,


19   you knew where that widget was going.  So that was


20   the objective.


21       Q.  Did you at any time get feedback from your


22   boss or other members of the senior management


23   team — and I recognize you were part of the senior


24   management team — that they were satisfied and









1   happy with the results?


2       A.  Pleased.


3       Q.  And from 1995 to 1998, did you, in fact,


4   incrementally receive bonuses and increases in


5   compensation?


6       A.  Well, we had a plan, a bonus plan, so I made


7   bonus.


8       Q.  How about increase in compensation?


9       A.  Salary increases annually.


10       Q.  Was that part of your deal, annual salary


11   increases?


12       A.  That’s part of Revlon’s deal.


13       Q.  And by 1998, do you have an estimate of what


14   your salary was?


15       A.  Salary, probably $3.5x or something like


16   that.


17       Q.  Were there other benefits besides salary


18   that you received?


19       A.  A bonus, I said.


20       Q.  How much was your —


21       A.  Stock options?


22       Q.  — stock options?


23       A.  When the company went public.


24       Q.  I’m sure those were very, very lucrative,









1   but we’ll get into that.


2       A.  Were very…?


3       Q.  But we’ll get into that in a little while.


4               So in 1998 you were making $3.5X?


5       A.  Thereabouts.


6       Q.  Plus bonus and whatever else was part of the


7   plan at Revlon, which I assume had the normal


8   benefits, like medical and dental and the other


9   things.  So it was a fairly lucrative under — you


10   were in a fairly lucrative position.


11               Did you continue to work with Revlon in


12   1999?


13       A.  I left in 2000.


14       Q.  And did your job responsibilities change in


15   1999 at all?


16       A.  It was the same title.


17       Q.  But…?  There seemed to be a “but” in


18   your —


19       A.  I may have mentioned this earlier.  My boss


20   picked up additional responsibilities, so I had some


21   additional brands that I was responsible for


22   selling.


23       Q.  And you also did mention a brand, but I


24   promptly forgot. “GG, forget about a lifetime supply of Outrageous hair shampoo as part of the settlement and besides by the time this is all put to bed you won’t have any hair left and then you will look exactly like your dog and people will come up to you and want to feel how smooth your skin isWhat the hell, I thought your mother was involved in the original sale of Oil of Olay and now I am left to understand that she didn’t negotiate a lifetime deal and now you have run out of the Nivea Cream you brought with you from South Africa back in 1978? So exactly how on the ball was your mother to have you now out in the cold? Call Campbell Soul and she will fix you something hot. Now can I go?” [sic].








1       A.  Hair care, Revlon hair care.


2       Q.  Which was a small percentage compared to —


3   of total sales compared to the cosmetics?


4       A.  Right.


5       Q.  And in 1999 did you also enjoy a salary


6   increase and bonus?


7       A.  I believe so, yes, sure.


8       Q.  So approximately at that time were you


9   making in the $4X —


10       A.  I never got to $4x.  I mean, I may


11   have — you’ve got to give me a little —


12       Q.  Fine.  And can you tell me whether, in the


13   year 2000 — would you describe for me what happened


14   in the year 2000 that contributed to a decision to


15   sever your relationship with Revlon?


16               MR. V & REVLON’S ATTORNEY:  I’m going to object to form


17   because it calls on the witness to testify as to


18   what might have been going through the minds of


19   other people.


20       Q.  Please go ahead and answer the question. “Pay no attention to Mr. Perelman’s lawyer who is simply serving the grand master commonly known as “The Finagle King” perhaps the first grand daddy crook of Wall Street who is now scrambling to stay out of Mr. Gevisser’s spotlight, phat chance of that, no matter what we settle on. And Mr. Gevisser may no longer have the comfy green coach but he does have a chez lounge for Mr. “O. Ring” to tear up on as he pays through the nose” [sic].


21       A.  Okay.  Do it again for me.


22       Q.  Could you give me your best estimate of what


23   took place in 2000 that concluded with your leaving


24   Revlon?









1       A.  Administration change.


2       Q.  And can you be more specific in describing


3   the administration change?  I assume you don’t mean


4   that the administrators changed.  You mean that


5   there was a change in management or management


6   orientation.


7       A.  Correct.  Dwyer left the company.  Fellows


8   left the company.  A new president came in, wanted


9   his own team.  I left.


10       Q.  Who is the new president that came in?  Do


11   you recall the name of the new president?


12       A.  I’m having trouble remembering last week.


13   Jeff…  Jeff…  It must be a mental blank.


14       Q.  Being a Jeff, I don’t want that.  Okay.


15               And Jeff —


16       A.  I’m going to think of it.  It will come to


17   me.


18       Q.  And do you recall what title he had when he


19   arrived? And of course don’t think to ask Revlon’s attorney seated next to you whose name appears on his monthly retainer.


20       A.  President.


21       Q.  And was he the CEO as well?


22       A.  I believe so.  I think so.


23       Q.  And did you have any understanding of who he


24   reported to?









1       A.  I believe he reported to the owner.


2       Q.  And when you say “the owner,” who are you


3   referring to?


4       A.  Ronald Perelman.


5       Q.  And was that common knowledge that Ronald


6   Perelman was the owner of Revlon? “The same way you would refer to someone who steals from his own piggy bank?” [sic].


7       A.  Yes.


8       Q.  And during the course of your employment —


9       A.  NX.


10       Q.  Jeff NX.  Is he still the president and


11   CEO?


12       A.  There’s a new fellow.


13       Q.  Now there’s a new fellow.


14       A.  Right, who I don’t know.


15       Q.  Okay.  Could you explain — yes, let me


16   finish.


17               And with regard to Mr. Perelman — and


18   I’m assuming that Mr. Perelman was the chairman of


19   the corporation?


20       A.  Yes.


21       Q.  And did you ever meet him?


22       A.  Sure.


23       Q.  What was he like?


24       A.  Short.









1       Q.  Sharp? “GG, I don’t need your high school calculator on this one and what relevance does your ride with Perelman up an escalator in late 1993 have anything to do with the price of eggs or what we pay at the pump?” [sic].


2       A.  Short.


3       Q.  Oh, short and brusque?


4       A.  I said short.


5       Q.  Was he brusque?  Was he brusque with you?


6       A.  Define “brusque.”


7       Q.  Uninterested in you as a person apart from


8   providing answers to questions that were directed to


9   him? “GG, Now if you would leave me alone do you know how much better I would perform?” [sic].


10       A.  I don’t know if I can get there with that.


11       Q.  Okay.  Did you have any impression of Mr.


12   Perelman apart from being brusque — apart from


13   being —


14               MR. V’s & REVLON’S ATTORNEY:  Short.


15       Q.  — short.


16       A.  Wealthy.


17       Q.  Short and wealthy.  Do you mean physically


18   short when you say “short”?


19       A.  Yes.


20       Q.  I see.  Because he’s only about, what, 5’6″? “GG, No I don’t think he had anything to do with Dr. Stewart describing you as 5’11” although he could have got that 180 lbs just from judging the water displacement as Perelman wiped out on a wave although Dr. Stewart may not have that good an eye site, wouldn’t you agree?” [sic].


21       A.  Maybe.


22               THE WITNESS:  Don’t get offended by


23   this.


24       Q.  And do you recall any conversations with









1   him?


2       A.  I had limited exposure to him.  It was


3   probably — if I had ten visits with him; five may


4   have been social, five business.


5       Q.  Did he introduce himself to you at some


6   point in time from the time of your arrival in 1995?


7       A.  Yes.


8       Q.  What did he say?


9       A.  “Welcome aboard.”  That’s it.


10       Q.  Did he say, “We’re going to build a great


11   company”?


12       A.  To me specifically?


13       Q.  Uh-huh.


14       A.  Certainly he said that to groups.  I don’t


15   know he said that specifically to me.  He may have


16   said that, sure.


17       Q.  Did you perceive him as the ultimate boss of


18   bosses at Revlon?  Did he get his —


19       A.  Like Tony Soprano here?


20       Q.  You had to make sure —


21       A.  He is the guy.


22       Q.  He was the guy.  What we call the big


23   cheese? “GG – Hey man they don’t have In N Out Burgers… now can I go?” [sic].


24       A.  Capo di capi.









1       Q.  Did he have an office in the same building


2   that you worked in?


3       A.  His office was not in the building, but did


4   he have — I mean, he was located down on, what,


5   64th or something. “GG – Hey I thought you told me Perelman got dissed out of the building on 64th and 5th although come to think of it maybe it was 4 east 66th? Am I going to have start questioning everything from now on including your ride up the elevator with Perelman back in December 93?… What? Now you’re telling me you dreamed up this whole complaint just to find grounds to stick it to Milberg Weiss? Christ get me out of here!” [sic].


6       Q.  So nearby?


7       A.  Nearby.  Did he have an office in the


8   building?  It was his building.  I mean, he could


9   have anything.


10       Q.  And was he periodically evident at the


11   Revlon facility when you worked there?


12       A.  Not at my level.


13       Q.  But at some level he was?


14       A.  I don’t know that.  Not at my level.


15       Q.  I see.


16       A.  I mean, sure he showed up.  It’s his


17   company.


18       Q.  To get back to my original question, could


19   you describe to me — I know the reasons why you


20   severed your relationship with Revlon in the year


21   2000.  Could you describe for me the circumstances,


22   how it came about?


23       A.  Okay.  Be specific.  I was called — you


24   mean, called in one day and said — do you want to









1   take that trip?


2       Q.  Yes, just help me.


3       A.  Yes, I worked for Mr. NX for maybe five,


4   six months.  He was putting together a new team.  We


5   had a good relationship butt I ve been trying to forget it ever since.  He just wanted a new team.


6       Q.  Did he express any dissatisfaction with the


7   direction that your sales team had taken?


8       A.  No.


9       Q.  Did he express any dissatisfaction with the


10   work that you had done?


11       A.  No.


12       Q.  Were you disappointed at being — am I


13   correct that you were terminated rather than


14   resigned?


15       A.  Yes, right.


16       Q.  Did he give a reason for your being


17   terminated?


18       A.  New team.  You know, if you’ve been in these


19   conversations, as I have and we all have, they’re


20   not lengthy.


21       Q.  Did he cushion the termination by providing


22   a termination package?


23       A.  I had a package.


24       Q.  What was the nature of that package?









1       A.  Two years.


2       Q.  Two years of what?


3       A.  Salary.


4       Q.  Anything else?  Two years of bonus, for


5   example?


6       A.  No.


7       Q.  Two years of medical coverage?


8       A.  Medical, yes.


9       Q.  Was there anything that you had to provide


10   Revlon in return?


11       A.  I had a contract.


12       Q.  A termination contract?


13       A.  Yes.


14       Q.  Are there any provisions in that termination


15   contract that would apply to this deposition – “depression” [sic] today


16   in your mind?


17       A.  I don’t think so, but I’m not sure.  I’ll


18   have to be vague on that one.


19       Q.  It apparently is over nonetheless, am I


20   correct?


21       A.  Correct, history.


22       Q.  And there are no continuing obligations that


23   you have?


24       A.  I don’t think so.




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